https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/ Sat, 18 Apr 2026 08:21:23 +0000 MyBB https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/thread-53.html Sun, 24 Sep 2023 23:40:22 +0200 Dubz]]> https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/thread-53.html The myth of the correct Block Shape

There are some people who think and spread that there is only one correct block form, their, and everything else is wrong and inferior. 

It is unfortunate that these people are part of a research guild and yet continue to spread such false facts. I have been planning to write a scientific paper on this topic for a long time and I will collect material here bit by bit.

It is to be said quite clearly, there is not the one correct form and if at all those spread a rather wrong and bulky form. But who is surprised, they are the ones who continue to sell the wrong left handed hawser rope and also use it themselves. 

All images are used in a scientific research context.


















Cheers

Dirk]]> The myth of the correct Block Shape

There are some people who think and spread that there is only one correct block form, their, and everything else is wrong and inferior. 

It is unfortunate that these people are part of a research guild and yet continue to spread such false facts. I have been planning to write a scientific paper on this topic for a long time and I will collect material here bit by bit.

It is to be said quite clearly, there is not the one correct form and if at all those spread a rather wrong and bulky form. But who is surprised, they are the ones who continue to sell the wrong left handed hawser rope and also use it themselves. 

All images are used in a scientific research context.


















Cheers

Dirk]]> https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/thread-42.html Sat, 18 Dec 2021 23:13:03 +0100 Dubz]]> https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/thread-42.html

  skala-mara-rope-data-table.jpg (Size: 3.16 MB / Downloads: 1089)

Just Skala (what I prefer)


  skala-rope-data-table.jpg (Size: 1.76 MB / Downloads: 1088) ]]>

  skala-mara-rope-data-table.jpg (Size: 3.16 MB / Downloads: 1089)

Just Skala (what I prefer)


  skala-rope-data-table.jpg (Size: 1.76 MB / Downloads: 1088) ]]> https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/thread-41.html Wed, 15 Dec 2021 18:01:51 +0100 Dubz]]> https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/thread-41.html ABSTRACT

There seems to be much confusion amongst model-makers over the ways in which rope was laid for various functions in a ship. The three general ways (hawser-laid, shroud-laid and cable-laid) are clear in their definitions and uses, but the confusion seems to arise when modellers use the wrong lay of the rope for its different uses. Thus there have been many who have claimed that shrouds of 17th, 18th and mid 19th century ships are usually made with left handed plain rope. That is simply not correct. Only cable-laid rope is left-hand laid. It is true that cable-laid ropes were sometimes used as shrouds on large warships, but this was the exception. Shrouds usually used (especially on merchant shipping) were shroud-laid: that being four strands with a central line or heart, laid to the right.

I have seen many contemporary and actual Models, even from World Champions, with left-handed running rigging, and sometimes a mix of left- and right-handed running rigging. This made me wonder why this should be, as it seems at the least illogical.

There have also been many discussions about breeching rope on canons and/or carronades as to whether they were cable-laid or left-handed hawser-laid.

The bottom line is that there are a lot of contradictory statements that are basically never backed up with sources. Some of the wrong things have simply taken root as ‘correct’.

This article tries to clear the air about the different uses of rope and show that Hawser-Laid Rope, used for all the running rigging were and is always right-handed, Z-Laid Rope.

It has to be acknowledged that the wide-spread use of left-handed running rigging or left-handed shrouds is historically wrong, unless made as cables or cablets.


PDF Download - New Revision see next Post!

OLD VERSION do not download! Scroll down please.


  The Myth of left-handed plain rope (hawser-laid) in Ship Modelling-v0.9c.pdf (Size: 3.71 MB / Downloads: 1256) ]]> ABSTRACT

There seems to be much confusion amongst model-makers over the ways in which rope was laid for various functions in a ship. The three general ways (hawser-laid, shroud-laid and cable-laid) are clear in their definitions and uses, but the confusion seems to arise when modellers use the wrong lay of the rope for its different uses. Thus there have been many who have claimed that shrouds of 17th, 18th and mid 19th century ships are usually made with left handed plain rope. That is simply not correct. Only cable-laid rope is left-hand laid. It is true that cable-laid ropes were sometimes used as shrouds on large warships, but this was the exception. Shrouds usually used (especially on merchant shipping) were shroud-laid: that being four strands with a central line or heart, laid to the right.

I have seen many contemporary and actual Models, even from World Champions, with left-handed running rigging, and sometimes a mix of left- and right-handed running rigging. This made me wonder why this should be, as it seems at the least illogical.

There have also been many discussions about breeching rope on canons and/or carronades as to whether they were cable-laid or left-handed hawser-laid.

The bottom line is that there are a lot of contradictory statements that are basically never backed up with sources. Some of the wrong things have simply taken root as ‘correct’.

This article tries to clear the air about the different uses of rope and show that Hawser-Laid Rope, used for all the running rigging were and is always right-handed, Z-Laid Rope.

It has to be acknowledged that the wide-spread use of left-handed running rigging or left-handed shrouds is historically wrong, unless made as cables or cablets.


PDF Download - New Revision see next Post!

OLD VERSION do not download! Scroll down please.


  The Myth of left-handed plain rope (hawser-laid) in Ship Modelling-v0.9c.pdf (Size: 3.71 MB / Downloads: 1256) ]]> https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/thread-35.html Thu, 05 Aug 2021 15:10:55 +0200 Dubz]]> https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/thread-35.html
For shrouds usually used is ... why do you think it's called that? ... Shroud Laid rope. 4 strands with a core laid right.


********************************
*** Direction of lay & type of rope ***
********************************

Terminology/Wordings in German and English:

Trossenschlag == Z-Schlag == Rechts geschlagen aus drei Duchten == Right Handed == Laid with the sun == Hawser Laid Rope (until 1847) == Common Rope == Plain Rope
Kabelschlag == S-Schlag == Links geschlagen == Left Handed == Laid against the sun  (Right now it is imo unknown that a left handed "hawser laid" rope existed at all in "our" time period 1750-1830)
Kabel == S-Schlag == Links geschlagen aus drei Trossen (Kardeele) == Kabelschlag == Cable Laid Rope, Left Handed == Laid against the sun
Wantschlag == 4 Duchten mit Seele rechts geschlagen (4 strands with a core laid right) == Z-Schlag == Vierschäftiges Tau == Shroud Laid == Laid with the sun 

Since about 1847 wording changed

Hawser Laid and Cable Laid are the same (William Brady, The Kedge Anchor, 1852 (1847)
Former Hawser Laid is now "Common Rope" or "Plain Rope" (Kipping, Rudimentary Treatise on Masting, Mast-Making, and Rigging of Ships, 1921, S.70)


Sources:  Steel, "Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor" / Schrage / etc.

===================

Cites:

Rope.—Ropes are of three kinds; three-strand, four-strand, and cable-laid. A number of yarns twisted together forms & strand. Three-strand rope (see Fig. 212) is laid right-handed, or with the sun (sometimes termed hawser-laid). Four-strand rope (see Fig. 213) is also laid with the sun (sometimes termed strand-laid). Four-Strand rope is usually used for sheets and shrouds, pennants, and generally for standing rigging. All rope comes under the general term of cordage. Cable-laid rope (see Fig. 214) oonsists of three "three-strand" right-hand laid ropes laid up together into one; these ropes are laid left-handed against the sun. Right-hand laid rope must be coiled with the sun; cable-laid rope is coiled against the sun.

Quelle: https://www.boatbuilding.xyz/boatbuildin...e/n-n.html


===================


"With the Sun, or with the Sun's shadow, is clockwise."

"But the description depends on which part of the process you are talking about. If you are holding a handful of fibers, facing a crank, and the crank is turning clockwise (to the right), the bundle will get a Z twist, as shown in Figure 2.7 (left), above. If, on the other hand, the hook is stationary, and you are twisting the bundle of fibers clockwise (to the right) with your hand, the fibers get an S twist. You do not have to look very far to find a Z twist described as right twist, and left twist, and clockwise and anticlockwise. [495]

Older texts talk of ropes laid "with the Sun". The Sun rises in the East and sets in the West, and its shadow on a sundial travels West to East. Clocks were designed so the hour hand mimics the motion of the gnomon's shadow. With the Sun, or with the Sun's shadow, is clockwise. But as just noted, clockwise can have two meanings when twisting fibers.

Shakespeare (1564 – 1616) mentions clocks frequently in his plays but the fact is, in the American Colonies, in the late 1700s, clocks were still fairly rare. According to the Oxford English dictionary, the word "clockwise" did not exist until after 1800.
If you said the word "clock", to a Scottish immigrant in the 18th Century, you would be understood to be talking about a "cloak", or the noise a chicken makes - "cluck", or one of several large beetles. [260]

So if you are holding the loose ends of the fibers and want an S twisted yarn, then the crank has to turn counter clockwise, from your point of view.
But if you are giving instructions to the person turning the crank, you have to reverse your instructions since they are facing the crank from the other direction. From their perspective, they have to turn the crank clockwise.
Unless the crank they are turning is driving the hooks with gears.
But that depends on how the gears are arranged....

It is easier to just show your cranker which direction to crank by making big hand circles."

Quelle: http://bkeithropemaker.com/Rope_Chapt_2.html


And then the Americans started to mix things .. 


  harland.jpg (Size: 744.53 KB / Downloads: 2231)

Quelle: The Mariner's Mirror - Volume 91, 2005 - Issue 3 - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1...ode=rmir20]]>
For shrouds usually used is ... why do you think it's called that? ... Shroud Laid rope. 4 strands with a core laid right.


********************************
*** Direction of lay & type of rope ***
********************************

Terminology/Wordings in German and English:

Trossenschlag == Z-Schlag == Rechts geschlagen aus drei Duchten == Right Handed == Laid with the sun == Hawser Laid Rope (until 1847) == Common Rope == Plain Rope
Kabelschlag == S-Schlag == Links geschlagen == Left Handed == Laid against the sun  (Right now it is imo unknown that a left handed "hawser laid" rope existed at all in "our" time period 1750-1830)
Kabel == S-Schlag == Links geschlagen aus drei Trossen (Kardeele) == Kabelschlag == Cable Laid Rope, Left Handed == Laid against the sun
Wantschlag == 4 Duchten mit Seele rechts geschlagen (4 strands with a core laid right) == Z-Schlag == Vierschäftiges Tau == Shroud Laid == Laid with the sun 

Since about 1847 wording changed

Hawser Laid and Cable Laid are the same (William Brady, The Kedge Anchor, 1852 (1847)
Former Hawser Laid is now "Common Rope" or "Plain Rope" (Kipping, Rudimentary Treatise on Masting, Mast-Making, and Rigging of Ships, 1921, S.70)


Sources:  Steel, "Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor" / Schrage / etc.

===================

Cites:

Rope.—Ropes are of three kinds; three-strand, four-strand, and cable-laid. A number of yarns twisted together forms & strand. Three-strand rope (see Fig. 212) is laid right-handed, or with the sun (sometimes termed hawser-laid). Four-strand rope (see Fig. 213) is also laid with the sun (sometimes termed strand-laid). Four-Strand rope is usually used for sheets and shrouds, pennants, and generally for standing rigging. All rope comes under the general term of cordage. Cable-laid rope (see Fig. 214) oonsists of three "three-strand" right-hand laid ropes laid up together into one; these ropes are laid left-handed against the sun. Right-hand laid rope must be coiled with the sun; cable-laid rope is coiled against the sun.

Quelle: https://www.boatbuilding.xyz/boatbuildin...e/n-n.html


===================


"With the Sun, or with the Sun's shadow, is clockwise."

"But the description depends on which part of the process you are talking about. If you are holding a handful of fibers, facing a crank, and the crank is turning clockwise (to the right), the bundle will get a Z twist, as shown in Figure 2.7 (left), above. If, on the other hand, the hook is stationary, and you are twisting the bundle of fibers clockwise (to the right) with your hand, the fibers get an S twist. You do not have to look very far to find a Z twist described as right twist, and left twist, and clockwise and anticlockwise. [495]

Older texts talk of ropes laid "with the Sun". The Sun rises in the East and sets in the West, and its shadow on a sundial travels West to East. Clocks were designed so the hour hand mimics the motion of the gnomon's shadow. With the Sun, or with the Sun's shadow, is clockwise. But as just noted, clockwise can have two meanings when twisting fibers.

Shakespeare (1564 – 1616) mentions clocks frequently in his plays but the fact is, in the American Colonies, in the late 1700s, clocks were still fairly rare. According to the Oxford English dictionary, the word "clockwise" did not exist until after 1800.
If you said the word "clock", to a Scottish immigrant in the 18th Century, you would be understood to be talking about a "cloak", or the noise a chicken makes - "cluck", or one of several large beetles. [260]

So if you are holding the loose ends of the fibers and want an S twisted yarn, then the crank has to turn counter clockwise, from your point of view.
But if you are giving instructions to the person turning the crank, you have to reverse your instructions since they are facing the crank from the other direction. From their perspective, they have to turn the crank clockwise.
Unless the crank they are turning is driving the hooks with gears.
But that depends on how the gears are arranged....

It is easier to just show your cranker which direction to crank by making big hand circles."

Quelle: http://bkeithropemaker.com/Rope_Chapt_2.html


And then the Americans started to mix things .. 


  harland.jpg (Size: 744.53 KB / Downloads: 2231)

Quelle: The Mariner's Mirror - Volume 91, 2005 - Issue 3 - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1...ode=rmir20]]> https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/thread-34.html Thu, 17 Jun 2021 11:55:34 +0200 Dubz]]> https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/thread-34.html
At least I have now beaten the 1.3 mm anchor cable for the Polotsk :-)







cheers

Dirk]]>
At least I have now beaten the 1.3 mm anchor cable for the Polotsk :-)







cheers

Dirk]]>